AOEO Future Civilization Analysis
I just want to write about some future AOEO Civilization possibilities in an organized, coherent fashion.
- Edit: If anyone has a civ that might need a more in depth discussion id
be happy to write up one, I just want to hear what people are interested
in. The threads I made before though didnt seem to do too well, but make for good reference, so I
made this thread which is more general. I enjoy contemplating and discussing about all this, and want to get the community's idea juices flowing and get people thinking about it. According to the devs, the civilizations that will be made will be picked from feedback and discussions just like this thread, they want to hear what we think.
* Also be sure to check out DynasticPlanet5's Civilization suggestion Index- http://forums.ageofempiresonline.com/forums/thread/77587.aspx
Age Of Empires Online now-
Setting: The time period
is roughly that of the first Age of Empires. So far the game has taken
place along the ancient Mediterranean Sea and Aegean.
Gameplay:
Age of Empires online seems to take the structure and core gameplay from
what is generally considered the most successful Age of game, AOE II,
and polishes its two civilizations, the Egyptians and the Greeks in a
manner that is so far very reminiscent of Age of Mythology.
Civilizations: So far, theres the Greeks and the Egyptians. What is
interesting is that both of these civilizations are very similar to
their counterparts is Age of Mythology. New Civilizations to come would
have to conceptually be made from scratch. (That is unless there's a
Norse Civilization, which there very well could be as I explain below)
Key Features: Online Persistence, which was dabbled with in AOE3 with
the Home city system and greatly expanded in AOE:O, yet with major
differences.
Keep in mind that the quality of civilizations in AOE
Online is unbelievable compared to other games in the series, and
adding a Civ would be a really big deal.
Now my hopes and predictions-
I feel that Age of
Empires Online has the potential to be the ultimate Age of Empires game,
the "WOW" of the RTS Genre if the developers are bold, inventive, and
faithful to the series and its fans, on the other hand WOW became WOW by
appealing to all different kinds of gamers and drew new people in. It
could be the penultimate ancient world RTS, and could be updated and
played for years if successful.
I would like to see Age of Empires online have a world spanning
setting. Obviously this is just a dream with no concept of reality. If
you were to take a globe, spin it around and drop your finger in some
random spot, I would like to be able to say "yeah theres an empire in
Age of Empires Online that could have been there" This probably wont
happen, but It wouldnt be as hard as youd think. So far we have the
Greeks and the Egyptians, which do a good job of covering the
mediterranean and even parts of Asia. Add the Chinese, India, a northern
European Civ, a couple new world Civs like the Incas and Maya and maybe
an Ancient African Civilization and its done. Just for sake of wild
speculation lets make a list of civilizations that could exist a few
years down the line: Egypt, Greece already exist, Norse, Celts,
Persians, Romans, China, India, Yamato, Maya, Andean, Norse - All wildly
unique civilizations, all itching for inclusion in AOE Online.
Analysis of possible civilizations: Going by what civilizations
have already existed in AOE games, we can make predictions as to what
may come, the following is a list of all civilizations that have been
included in age of empires games. Obviously it doesnt mean much, but its
a good exercise. But seeing as both civilizations in game now were
civilizations that were in previous games, I say its worth looking into. Skip to Bottom of the blue text for less blah blah
Age of Empires 1- Greeks, Minoans, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Assyrians,
Sumerians, Babylonians, Persians, Hittites, Shang, Choson, Yamato,
Romans, Carthaginians, Palmyrans, and the Macedonians
Age of Empires 2-
Britons, Byzantines, Celts, Goths, Teutons, Franks, Mongols, Chinese,
Japanese, Persians, Saracens, Turks, Vikings, Maya, Aztec, Spanish, Huns
and Koreans
AOM- Egyptians, Greeks, Norse
AOE3- Spanish, British, French,
Portuguese, Dutch, Russian, German, Ottoman, Sioux, Aztecs, Iroquois,
Indians, Japanese and Chinese
Now, we can whittle this down by
removing civs that are out of the time period, too obscure or too
similar to another civilization.
Age 1- Greeks, Minoans (ancient Crete, Greek in this game)
Phoenicians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Persians, HittitesShang (too specific, say China),
Choson, Yamato, Romans, Carthaginians, Palmyrans (wasnt this just a
Roman breakoff state?) and the Macedonians (considered Greek in AOEO)
Age 2- Britons (Celtic), Byzantines (Greek/Roman), Celts, Goths,
Teutons, Franks, Mongols (too late period, 1200 A.D.), Chinese,
Japanese, Persians, Saracens (not in period), Turks (not in Period),
Vikings*, Maya, Aztec*, Spanish (could be considered mixture of celtic
and carthaginian), Huns* and Koreans
AOM- Egyptians, Greeks, Norse*
AOE3- Spanish, British, French, (all too Late), Sioux*,
Portuguese, Dutch, Russian, German, Ottoman,
Aztecs*, Iroquois*, Indians, Japanese and Chinese
*These
civilizations were late period, but in many ways still relevant to the
discussion, as the precursors existed and/or historical innacuracy may
be tolerable for inclusion.
That leaves: Greeks, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Sumerians,
Babylonians, Persians, Choson, Yamato, Romans, Carthaginians, Celts,
Goths, Teutons, Franks, Chinese, Japanese, Maya, Korean, Indians and the
special case Vikings, Aztec, Norse, Sioux, Iroquois, Huns
From this list, you can combine/remove cultures that are the same
and just different names for different periods, or different branches of
a single group.
Greeks, Egyptians, Phoenicians/Carthaginians
(Carthage was a phoenician Colony and was culturally very similar to the
mother culture), Assyrians, Sumerians, Babylonians (say, Mesopotamia,
or Babylonian) Persians, Choson/Korean, Yamato/Japanese, Romans, Celts, Goths, Teutons, Franks, (Say Germanians, all were continental Germanic
tribes in this time period, had similar culture), Chinese, Japanese,
Maya, Korean, Indians and the special case Vikings (Norse), Aztec,
Norse, Sioux, Iroquois, Huns (a far Eastern European/Central Asian
semi-nomadic civilization would be nice tho, lets say, Scythians)
(better options for Anatolia),
That leaves:
Greeks, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Mesopotamia, Persians, Korean, Japanese, Romans, Celts, Germanics, Chinese, Maya, Indian
And Norse, Aztec, Sioux, Iroquois, and Scythians need further discussion.
Greeks- Existing Civilization.
Egyptians- Existing Civilization.
Persians- They are begging to be done. The Greeks main foe other than themselves.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Cataphracts, Horse archers, Immortals
Update: Persians coming as pro Civ Holiday 2011!
Probability on scale of 1-10: 10
Celts- A while
back I wrote a post that outlined a theoretical Celtic Civ. Very
popular, powerful, widespread Western European culture, seems like a
cool representative of the ancient inhabitants of Western Europe. They
are also the ancient enemies of both the Greeks and Romans.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Chariots, Woad Raider, Slingers, Heroic elite infantry, Mounted Nobles, Druids
Update: Celts coming as F2P/Premium Civ Holiday 2011!
Probability on scale of 1-10: 10
Phoenicians-
I wrote a post a long while back about the inclusion of a
Carthaginian/Phoenician civilization. The idea is to combine the two for
various reasons. Carthage was a Phoenician Colony which was ruled by
the Phoenician City states along the Levant, the Phoenician homeland. In
order to get enough meat to put together a whole civilization, we need
to know enough about them, and the best way to do it would be to have a
larger historical scope.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Strong Naval Element, Mercenaries
(the carthaginians were famous on relying on mercenaries), Sacred Band
elite infantry, War Elephants, various N. African units
Probability on scale of 1-10: 6
Mesopotamia- I propose that there be one main Mesopotamian
civilization (Persians wouldnt count), since Mesopotamia was the cradle
of civilization and had changed hands many times. The combined
historical and Archaelogical scope of the various rulers of mesopotamia
would surely be enough for a civilization. (Babylon, Sumer, Assyria)
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Babylonian style structures for Home
city, ziggurats, Ishtar Gate, hanging gardens, chariot based warfare
Probability on scale of 1-10: 6
Korean-
Gojoseon Korea specifically. Founded in 2333 B.C. and the period ends
in about 100 B.C. Thats all I can really say about them ATM, but Ill do
some research. Later periods could be included.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: N/A
Probability on scale of 1-10: 6
Japanese-
Yamato Period Japan would be interesting, although I find it hard to
find detailed info on it outside of mythical context.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: N/A
Probability on scale of 1-10: 4
Romans- The main argument I hear
about the Romans not being included is that they are too similar to the
Greeks. This I feel is untrue, especially in the context of AOEO, a
military game. I say this is a shoe-In. Probably based on republican
Rome, with Imperial Rome styled art.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Legionaire (would be base unit,
anti-inf), Triarii (spearman), Archer, Equites (Hippikon), Velites
(skirmisher)
Probability on scale of 1-10: 9
Germanics-
The Franks, Goths, Teutons and even Norse were all Germanic peoples.
These civilizations didnt necessarily exist in the greek classical
period but their ancestors most likely did, and had powerful Iron age
cultures.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Berserkers, Pikemen, Heavy Cavalry, Night Raiders, Huskarls, Throwing axemen
Probability on scale of 1-10: 7
Chinese- Ancient Chinese Civilization is a shoe-in, IF AOEO decides to do East Asian Civs.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Crossbowmen, Chariots
Probability on scale of 1-10: 8
Maya-
IF AOEO decides to do new world Civilizations, the Maya were one of the
Earliest, most powerful, culturally interesting civilizations on the
table.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Macana Clubmen, Archers
Probability on scale of 1-10: 6
Indian- Ancient India would be very interesting. Historically Alexander the great and his successors fought against them.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Indian Longbowmen, Chariots, Guildsman (elite infantry), War Elephants
Probability on scale of 1-10: 6
---
Norse-
The Norse, or the "Vikings" that we all know existed during the Viking
age, from about 800-1100 A.D. in Scandanavia. Their inclusion in AOEO
would give plenty of people who are sticklers about history a big
headache, but i'd say most people that played Age of Mythology are
already conditioned to seeing Greeks, Egyptians and Norse duking it out.
IMO do it, or at the very least combine the cultural aspects with a
Germanian civilization that would represent a proto-norse and germanic
peoples. Keep in mind that the "Nordic Iron Age" went all the way to 800
A.D. and the start of the Viking Age.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Berserkers (why werent there Berserkers in AOM?), Longships, Throwing Axemen etc. etc.
Probability on scale of 1-10: 7
Aztec-
They didnt exist in the time frame of AOE Online, but their
predecessors, the Toltec, Teotihuacan, Maya and various others did.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Eagle Knights, Jaguar Knights, Atl-Atl (skirmishers)
Probability on scale of 1-10: 4
Sioux-
The Sioux would be very boring as a civilization IMO prior to the
introduction of horses into their culture around 1600 (way out of the
time frame of AOEO). Native American cultures existed in the Great
plains during the games time period, but we don't know anything about
them outside of an Archaeological context. If for some crazy reason it
is decided that the Sioux will be added to AOEO for flavor purposes as a
unique civilization, they would almost certainly include the
Ahistorical addition of horses in the New World, and depending how it's
done, I might actually be cool with that.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Nomadic Gameplay, prob cavalry based.
Probability on scale of 1-10: 1
Iroquois-
Similar scenario to the Sioux, there were people living there, but
without horses, gunpowder or any substantial historical information from
the period, its not going to happen.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: n/a
Probability on scale of 1-10: .5
Scythians-
A nomadic civilization, be it the Huns, Scythians, Sarmatians, Saka,
etc. would be a very cool addition to the game at some point. They could
be made to be substantially different to existing civilizations, much
like the Huns in AOE2 did not have to build houses, or the "nomadic"
style of the Sioux in AOE3.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Horse archers, nomadic gameplay, cataphracts, lots of cavalry. Axemen, archers.
Probability on scale of 1-10: 3
---
Other
Civilizations not discussed previously, and Have not been included in
previous age of empires games but require discussion:
Inca or Andean- The Andes is considered one of the few places on
earth that civilization had materialized by itself in ancient times.
Look up Moche, Norte Chico
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Bola
Warrior, Noble Axemen (they developed bronze weapons in clubs and axes),
Slingers, clubmen
Probability on scale of 1-10: 3
African- The Nok culture existed
in Sub Saharan Africa and were fairly advanced. The Mali Empire was very
Powerful in Medieval times in the Sahel. The inclusion of an african
kingdom would be something new and refreshing for the series.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: Tribal spearmen, Sahel Cavalry
Probability on scale of 1-10: 1
Pacific
Northwest Native- This is something in personally interested in. The
Indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest North America had countless
fascinating cultures. The Artstyle, warfare, setting and culture truly
stand out. Although they never developed substantial argriculture, they
had many other reliable sources of food. People have inhabited the
Pacific Northwest For at least 4000 years, and developed extremely
complex cultures. I want to see it done due to my own selfish
fascination with their history :)
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: To be discussed.
Probability on scale of 1-10: .01
Ancient Thailand or Vietnam- Would be interesting, could fight against the Chinese in the campaign.
Possible Gameplay Mechanics/units: N/A
Probability on scale of 1-10: .5
To be continued...
Very intersting analysis.
I think the first new culture has to be persians. They are to mighty to ignore in this period of time and the previous age games show how important they are.
Now its getting intersting, while romans seem to be a very important culture too, they are not my favourites and very similar to the greeks as you mentioned. I would favour a germanic cultur, the celts are first in list, because they are the biggest from all the german cultures.
Also intersting to mention is the asian region with the chinese and japanese culture, but also the Khmer are a powerfull civ at this time, remember Angkor Wat as a giant temple in the middle of a jungle.
That would implement your ancient thailand and vietnam as well because the khmer are the most powerfull culture at this period of time in this region.
Talking about the new world wouldnt be easy. But if there will be a new world, there have to be the maya such as the inca, because they are the most powerfull cultures in south america.
But whatever the new cultures will be, if AOEO will be a success i bet there will be lot more stuff implementet in the future. And the love the developers lay into this game can be seen in the little dinosaur skelleton unter the earth when you scroll to the east and south of the map, hope you developers dig some more of these skelletons in. Like to see a mammoth on snow maps or a stegosaurus ^^
You sure love history Sas. :p
I actually enjoyed reading that. Thanks. :)
|||Great read. I'm betting on Babylonia/Summeria as the next civ.|||I'd really love to see the norse!|||
baracuda4live wrote
the Khmer are a powerfull civ at this time, remember Angkor Wat as a
giant temple in the middle of a jungle.
Angkor Wat was built in the 12th century. It is contemporaneous with the Crusades. To put it in perspective, the time period between now and when Angkor Wat was built is about half the time period that separates the construction of Angkor Wat from the apogee of Greek civilization, and the Egyptians are even farther back.
I would favour a germanic cultur, the celts are first in list, because
they are the biggest from all the german cultures.
No. The Celts inhabited some of the same areas, and they both speak Indo-European languages, but they were not Germanic.
|||I'd consider a Norse civilization highly unlikely, and stuff like the Sioux and Iroquois even more so. Let's stick to the thematic time period of the ancient world. That doesn't mean they can't do stuff that's similar gameplay-wise to those civs in older Age games. A Scythian civ could play like the Sioux; A Celtic or Germanic civ could have elements of the Norse.
Romans are a must eventually, and I don't see a problem in making mechanics for them that would play very different from the Greeks, or even in giving them an art style for their buildings that clearly distinguishes them from Greeks.
Never mind that Angkor Wat wasnt build in this time period but the khmer does exist at this time in history. Angkor Wat was an example to show how powerfull this civ was.
I saw articles that mentioned the celts in the same breath with the germanics o0
"Angkor Wat was built in the 12th century. It is contemporaneous with the
Crusades. To put it in perspective, the time period between now and
when Angkor Wat was built is about half the time period that separates
the construction of Angkor Wat from the apogee of Greek civilization,
and the Egyptians are even farther back."
This is true. But note that there were powerful civilizations prior to the Khmer of Cambodia in the region, say Vietnam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam#Early_kingdoms
Even if the majority of the civilizations we discuss don't make the cut, chances are some could end up as minor scenario civs, like the Badari, Nubians, Sea Peoples and such are now.
"I'd consider a Norse civilization highly unlikely, and stuff like the
Sioux and Iroquois even more so. Let's stick to the thematic time period
of the ancient world. That doesn't mean they can't do stuff that's
similar gameplay-wise to those civs in older Age games. A Scythian civ
could play like the Sioux; A Celtic or Germanic civ could have elements
of the Norse."
You are correct, I let the Sioux and Iroquois slip through just for sake of discussion.
As for the Norse, I think its a bit more complex.
Heres a quote directly from Cosy
"While I was in school I took a lot of Scandinavian study courses then
laterlived in Denmark so I've been hoping that someday we'd develop the
Norse civilization based on icelandic sagas.Yes, I'm biased. 
"
This obviously doesnt say there will be a Norse civilization in this game, but just bringing it up in a discussion about new civilizations tells that the idea is floating around in at least some devs heads. Cosy might not get a chance to see his dream if its not done in this game, who knows if they will get a chance to go back to medieval times :P
If you took the Barebones Norse civ from AOM, and gave them all bronze and iron age weapons and flavor, it would be a halfway decent Germanic civilization. You could even give them proto-longships, or make longships a unique advisor unit, berserkers etc,. It would be all encompassing.
|||Sasquatch you make some really enjoyable posts...
Regarding my comment, there is nothing to read into really, I simply enjoyed Scandinavian studies while I was in school. We've pondered just about every possible civilization under the sun. I know that there are many history buffs among Age of Empires fans, but don't limit your brainstorming to a specific time period simply because your ideas don't seem to fit the timeframe.
--Cosy
Haha thanks Cosy, I really appreciate that.
Even when they seem to fall flat I can't stop my mind from running about what the possibilities in AOEO are. I'm a big history buff too.
And yeah I didnt mean to latch onto that comment, I just thought it was interesting because so little has been said about the things the devs are brainstorming that it was pretty cool to see that little glimpse.
But I have been thinking about it and I share your fascination with the Norse sagas.
Chalk another one up for lovers of Norse sagas and mythologies.
But anyway, I think the most likely candidate for next civilization at this point is East Asian. Think about it:
-Greeks, as of right now, seem pretty representative of classical Mediterranean civilization (Romans, Etruscans, Macedon, etc.).
-They have a very recognizable aesthetic, and units/armor/gear that ranges in look from Roman to Mycenaean
-Their quest-line includes Sea Peoples and Trojans, which seem to cover minor Greek/Anatolian tribes as well as Phoenicians.
Now, as for the Egyptians:
-They are (like Greeks) one of the most recognizable ancient civilizations (mummies, Walk like an Egyptian, the pyramids, all that good historical and pop culture stuff)
-Their aesthetic could (although by a stretch) be representative for most of West Asia (sandy apartment-style houses, pyramids, intricate temples, etc.)
-Their units take after other regions in the Near East more so than Egypt itself (Persian War Elephants, Arabian camelry and nomads)
What big player is left, then, as far as recognizable, important, and diverse ancient civilizations? The Chinese.
-Just as recognizable as Greeks and Egyptians (the Great Wall, Confucius, Sun Tzu, anyone can name those)
-Aesthetic could easily represent all Far East civilizations (Japan, Korea) of the time
-Cool unit opportunities (rockets, siege weapons, chu-ko-nu) that could also include elements of other Far East civs, as well as gear opportunities (meteor hammers, rattan armor, banners)
Even if the Chinese weren't added as the immediate next civilization, they would probably be among the first few releases. Not to downplay the importance/value/opportunity of other civilizations that should also make it in (Indians, Mayans, Celts)
|||@Zatria, I think I agree with you, but I wouldnt put money on the Chinese before the Persians. I'd really like to see the Chinese though. They wouldnt have gunpowder though, even in China it wasn't discovered till the 9th century. Crossbows and Chu-ko-nu, definitely.
I do think the shift in Aesthetics is something to take an close look at, and it may a reason they would shift to an East Asian Civ, if they do that, I'd Expect a New World civ like the Maya coming thereafter.
|||@SuperSasquatch
The Persians would be too similar to the Egyptians to be released before a civilization like China or the Mayas.
I do agree with you, though, that if they are going for the most different first, that the follow-up to an East Asian would probably be a New World civ. Or, a Norse-style "barbarian" civ.
|||The Persians would resemble the Egyptians in a superficial artstyle sense, but when it comes to units and gameplay they would bring tons of new unit types to the table. So gameplay and the the fact that a Persian civ would create a kind of "super triangle" of Mediterranean civs could win out over purely aesthetic reasons. Persians would also have more interaction with the existing civs.
Th problem I see for the Chinese to come next would be the fact that the existing assets most likely wouldnt be able to be used (maps, quests) , it would be an entirely new theatre, so due to the amount of work required it may come later.
Immortals, Cataphracts, Horse Archers, Scythed Chariots would all be fun for the Persians, ive been waiting for the latter three to show up.
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