well, this thread is about all archers in general, and not one in particular, including future archers andslingers (except gastrophetes). its alsoabout those *** craftyaoe3 devs* and thier several built in safeguards to keep long rangedarchers from dominating like the current archersfrom thier ability tohit and runto theirinsane Rate Of Fire.if we can balance these, it make all archers both future and present more balanced.this also adds a sense of realism as a bonus
for one, they dont have any"ready" and aim animation, which allows them to hit and run with ease, a problemthat wasnt there in the previous age game. this animation is vitial in allowingunits such as cavalry orother anti-archers to catch up with them, even if they are slower. it stops the ability to kiteenemy anti-archers all day, while still doing quite a bit of damage. this helps balance all future mobile and nonmobile archers, while aso being realistic in that archers dont instantly turn around and luanch an arrow at the same time like james bond on steroids, and actually aiming and fitting an arrow into the bow first.
although if this changes the gameplay too much, the second option seems much better
With thier crazy rate offire,archers currentlyact more like crossbows or muskets from aoe3. they stand around a bit, lean back, maybe even scratch thier face for a moment before BAM! they launch an arrow so fast it puts the cowboys to shame. they do this becuasetheirrate of fire is set to3.0,doublethe 1.5the previous age 3 game had. with the current dps system (damage per second)this allows them to hit and run more easily due to all the concentrated firepower that first arrow has, instead of spreading thier damage around like in the last game. if we cut thier fire rate to half, and increasingthier damage by a third or more, being able to hit and run would be drasticly weaker as they do less damage in that first "turn and shoot" volley, yet deal the same or more damage over time. besides being usefull to balance it also make the game seem more realistic, mass archers dealing quick repetitive volleysinstead of those crossbow/pistol like fire rate they currently have. ittl also make the gastrophetes more unique with its higher damage per arrow and longer reload time.
in short, i propose that all non-crossbow ranged units get thier rate of fire cut in half, thier damage also increased by a third or less, and be given some sort of 2 second "ready up" animation before firing that first volley, both for balance and realism
what do you guy's think?
*i admit, thier balancing on other stuff wasnt so great
|||"in short, i propose that all non-crossbow ranged units get thier rate of fire cut in half, thier damage also cut by a third or more, and be given some sort of 2 second "ready up" animation before firing that first volley, both for balance and realism"
Ok... why not remove them from the game after all.
|||"Ok... why not remove them from the game after all"
how so? a short ready up animation and bam, thier blasting away. it hasnt stopped archers from previousgames from being one of the best anti-infantry units in the game.
this will also be effective in stopping hit and run vs anti-archer units, yet theyll still destroy infantry. espicially with thier increased fire rate and damage over time
|||Cavalery hasn't any difficulty to catch the archers. So why would you like to nerf archers when their counters are definitely efficient against them?|||I dont understand why archery was given this to begin with. I could understand for a slow refiring Siege engine or Crossbow, but for slings, arrows and guys throwing spears... why?|||Horrible idea. To put it simple, every unit in the game has a unit that can counter it, including every archer. Gimping archers like you suggest will make them utterly useless in the game and no one will use them.|||
becuase thier not very effective vs longer ranged archers that could move faster then them and also instantly shoot 3 seconds worth of dps, while cavalry like sarris have an amazingly slowattack and have trouble killing chariots without snare. the other anti-archer, the peltast cant catch up with chariots and other faster archersif they decide to hit and run, making them a bit pointless in a real battle
cant say its gimping, since after a few seconds theyll deal more damage then before due to thier doubled firerate yet only 30% weaker arrows. thyd be more powerfull, more stronger vs infantry, yet unable to hit and run thier counters as easily
|||So this IS about chariots, i thought you said ANY archer. Well, looks like some one needs to learn how to play as everyone ive played has had no problem beating mine to a pulp.|||
not just chariots, but any other long range archer
ive never had any problems myself with chariots, its also about toxatoes as well
you may not know this, but toxatoes dominated in the the late beta after egypt was locked due the traits im proposing to fix, sarri's are great no doubt, but many people including themistaa and others just started off with toxatoes and maybe a few spearmen to win most games
infact it was called age of toxatoes by ork and othersat one point. they where nerfed later though
|||Yet you specifically point out chariots in your counter argument, if you have trouble beating up mobile archers that arent exactly fast at shooting with a base speed of 9, you need to up your gear or rethink your strategy. EVERY unit has a viable counter from both races, learn em and use em.|||
no, im not bothered by chariots, i just build a few elephants and chariotsif they pop-up. its about allarchers ability to hit and run, as well as their crazy fire rate
|||Yes crazy fire rate, 100 units run up to any of my archers, they all typically target the first unit they see, launch, 1 unit killed, and my archers sit there waiting to reload while 99 more close in on them.
Unless I create groups of archers to specifically tackle a certain area/unit, they all typically aim for the first one they see. Which I do, but I guarantee you most people don't.
You should rename this thread to "Disgruntled player looking to nerf things I can't win against because I cant think"
|||"Yes crazy fire rate, 100 units run up to any of my archers, they all typically target the first unit they see, launch, 1 unit killed, and my archers sit there waiting to reload while 99 more close in on them"
thats a poroblem with micro. try splitting your archers into several groups, by holding a group then pressing shift 1. then every timeyou press1 that group will be selected.youcan do thisfor up to 9 groups (not sure if their is a group0).try and make every group alt move by itself, theyll split the damage more evenly. or press backspace, which will make all archers fire at different targets. go ahead, try it out.
i dunno if insulting me has much to do with the stuff im suggested, but ill admit im not the best player in the game (zutazuta or norc? maybe orc or mista?)
|||Can you do that kind of micro though? (to control group 10 group of archers and shift click every one of them) I don't think I have seen MarineKing or IMMVP do micro that good. Pressing stop to just let the units fire on the other hand makes archers less scary since they aren't focused on killing several units at a time, and can overkill.|||its a bit hard to do it in battle, so i like to do it before, when im creating my archers. it allows me to focus several different groups of archers at different targets very quickly. pressing backspace will also allow your archers to shoot at all targets in an area, try it out. awesome stuff.
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